And speaking of 'sweeping generalisations' I find your comments about the Red Cross to be just that Derek. It certainly bears no relationship to my dealings with them.

I have also been told that their non FAW trainers will be able to teach the new protocols as soon as they are updated which is March onwards.

BTW they are not a christian organistion but are non sectarian (if that is the right word and even if it is I bet I have spelt it wrong!)

Posted by Red Barron

I was merely expressing points based on my own observations over the last 25 years of being a First aider and Instructor.

I know I am not alone in this because the vast majority of people I speak to confirm that this is in fact true as far as their own experiences are concerned.

I was employed as a First aid Trainer for BRC for 2 years and found this attitude to be widespread throughout the branch.
I also attended a national conference in Harrogate in early 90's, and was frowned upon by the BRC Instructors because I was an Independant.

I don't normally slag anyone, I only tell the truth as I have experienced it.

If this experience was found by me at local level only, then that's generalising.
But this attitude was exactly the same at National level.

Even the OFFICE staff had this attitude towards non-BRC trainers and the CUSTOMERS who attended the courses. (this was said to me on many occasions by my students).

Remember this is not my opinion, it's my experience over 25 years !!



Posted by derek

Like most competitors in the business world, it is cut-throat, and everyone wants the lion share of the business out there.

Unfortunately in the world of First aid, this is to the detrement of people's lives, not just livelihoods.

I wish that we could all get along and work as a unit, but I honestly can't see it ever happening, as long as we're getting bullied and dictated to by the "big guns".

If we independant training organisations can't get a vote or say in our own industry, then we will struggle to survive.

It's a bit like the local company making local decisions, for the local community being taken over by a large national company who only thinks of making money, then cuts jobs and closes branches.



Posted by derek

HSE do not approve trainers or assessors!

Posted by scottydog

thanks for the warning I hit my head against the wall, I know that! it bloody hurts too..... this puppy is a bit bald on the head...... must get me fleas sorted ouit.

Firstaid states that his assessors are HSE approved, this is certainly not thecase. I just wanted to pint this out as some on this site still get caught out by the " first aid trainer training" line..... it is what I drop from me wee rear end every morning... oops too much info on that front!

Posted by scottydog

I find your generalisations on the way in which non VAS training companies work quite insulting. Far from being less professional than the VAS, private trainers have to offer a much higher standard of professionalism as they do not have a 'household name' such as St. John or Red Cross to hide behind.

I know I am now generalising, and with both the VAS and private training companies anybody will have to agree there are some trainers who are excellent and some trainers who are poor.

I work as a trainer assessor for an organisation outside of the VAS. As well as being approved by the HSE, all of us have come from a practical first aid background - ex. Ambulance service, life gaurding, and indeed, like myself the VAS.

When the Resus Council introduced the new guidelines, the HSE quite rightly gave a time limit for these guidelines to be integrated into approved courses. Each individual trainer/organisation then had to choose how and when they implemented the changes into their courses.

I fully appreciate your comments that any trainer should understand the new guidelines fully before starting to train them, however look at it this way. St. John for example has hundreds, if not thousands of trainers spread throughout the country, if it is to offer a continuity of training nationwide all of these must be updated before St. John as an organisation embrace the changes. In the organisation I train for we have less than 10 trainers/assessors, these have been fully updated through practical training sessions and are all now fully conversant with the new guidelines. Why should we now wait for the VAS to play catch up.

Now tell me something? How does our implementing the changes earlier mean we are profiting from them. Our course prices have not changed and any certificates we issued prior to the changes are still valid for the full three years. In fact the changes have cost us money, producing new manuals etc.

One final point, the shear size of the VAS mean they have to be run commercially in order to survive. Their teaching has to be just as profitable as that of other organisations, make no mistake!

Posted by D.Tucker

as a member of a VAS i can not agree with you more on this topic. i have been informed from my commandant that their is a new book being produced and that we will start to be trained on the new procedures in the coming months.

Posted by nitram2005

Playing devil's advocate to SJGarths comments here. I wonder what would have been said if the Resus Council had produced the guidleines on day 1 and then the VAS book came out on day 2. Favouritism?

Posted by Red Barron

I was employed by Red Cross as a first aid trainer/assessor.  Am now private.  Recenly attended a course with St joh at Macclesfield because my F..A.W. cert had expired.  Was disgusted with quality of trainig.  Crush injury 15 munute rule not covered, amputations not covered, C.P.R. for stoma casualty not covered, penetrating wound to eye not covered, penetrating chest wound not covered in depth,needIgoon.......