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Fall from climbing frame!!!
Big Bill Offline
#1 Posted : 17 July 2008 00:00:00(UTC)
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Was on duty recenty in the battle wagon when a school teacher comes up to us!
She explains thats she's a teacher in a infants school, and recently whilst on playground duty she witnessed a child slip and fall from a small height.

The said child got up and ran around untill the teacher could catch up with him, after a short while the child is saying that he doesn't feel well.

So although the teacher (who has had first aid course) suggests an ambulance the school ring the parents who duly come and collect the child.

The parents decide to take the little tyke to the hospital as by then he is complaining of a "funny" feeling in his arms.

After an x-ray it is found that he has fractured his neck!!!!!!!

The teacher has explained that she is required to make a statment as the school are all paniky, I told her that she done exactly what she was trained and that the school acted against her best wishes to contact an ambulance ( must add that although she seen him slip she did not see the actual moment of impact itself)

Again it's a case of managment over powering the junior ranks as to say!

But I have told her to put all this into a statment and get any witness'!

She has now also decided to join a VAS for more training and some hands on experience as the majority of the time, the only first aid she gets is on her refresher courses!!!!!
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tkerby Offline
#2 Posted : 17 July 2008 00:00:00(UTC)
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It's a very difficult situation if you are overruled by management in a school.  Various friends and family members teach and all sorts of things go on such as trying to get teachers to work as playground supervisors and administer first aid without training, or only having one first aider on extended leave.  Head teachers don't seem to realise the school has medical responsibility for the child as well as being in loco parentis and the first aider is the most senior person as far as that goes.

If it was me, I would have called an ambulance and then told the head teacher to notify the parents that this was the case.  It can easily be explained as covering the schools back.  Back covering by handing the child back to the parents may not work as if they complain about the school not providing adequate care, the education authority will be looking for someone to blame and that might be the first aider.

I'd suggest they submit a formal complaint that their recommendation was ignored in writing to the education authority explaining that this had a negative effect on the childs outcome.  It's far more likely they start getting in management consultants then rather than looking at the first aid itself

beefcarrot Offline
#3 Posted : 17 July 2008 00:00:00(UTC)
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At my school, we have put in place a clear policy that states that it is the decision of the designated First Aider whether or not to call an ambulance.  The managment are then informed of this decision.  It's not something that has caused an argument yet - when I say I want something done, that's what has happened.  It's a good safety net though.
Mad Medic Offline
#4 Posted : 17 July 2008 00:00:00(UTC)
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I have been in the situation (not in a school setting) where somebody has attempted to overule what I wanted to do with a patient. I would not ever get into an arguement over the patient, however one "trick" if you like I have found useful is to say in front of a witness (there's usually loads of rubber necks about) "That is fine if you feel you need to do something other than that which as a qualified First Aider I am advising that is yout choice; however YOU accept medico-legal responsibility for this patient and the consequences of your actions." That normally gets their attention and gets them to consider the sense or lack thereof of their actions.
 

However as everybody else says worse case scenario document your actions in writing, preferably with a witnes statement and you should be fine.
safeinmyhands Offline
#5 Posted : 20 July 2008 00:00:00(UTC)
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Same here Beefcarrot, I work in a school and when the school asked me to train as a first aider for school I told them that i would only do it if I could overhaul the whole arrangment of first aid provision in school and my first point of redress was the first aid policy.
I then made sure that the school adherred to the advice laid down in the DFES document on providing FA in school.

Its difficult to know what to do otherwise if theres an incident in school that needs decisions making quickly.

 

 
safeinmyhands Offline
#6 Posted : 20 July 2008 00:00:00(UTC)
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By the way when, as is sometimes inevitable, someone mentions "but what if we get sued" I always say" if you were a parent would you be more likely to sue a school who did nothing or one which provided some care" I know what my answer would be. 
MrsT Offline
#7 Posted : 03 August 2008 00:00:00(UTC)
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I had occasion recently to collect my son ( first time) from school as he had banged his head. On the way I went into Nurse mode, has he been sick, unconscious etc. However when I got there, I thought he probably didn't need to go to hospital, and certainly had he banged his head at home, I wouldn't have taken him, but 2 things occurred to me;


 1. if I didn't take him, and he developed a compression, school would say it was my fault, and they would be right, and 2 as a child protection nurse, I also teach that if a parent doesn't take an injured child to hospital when advised to do so, why not?

 

So I did take him, but also explained to A/E that I wouldn't have, but the fact school advised it. The Dr was fine, he said he understood school's reasons.

 

He was fine, although the next day, when I met the dinner lady, she said she hadn't seen it happen - only heard it!!! I'm glad I took him now. He has since banged his head in the same place on 3 consecutive days!!

 

 
Big Bill Offline
#8 Posted : 04 August 2008 00:00:00(UTC)
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Is that on the same place on his head or the same place in the play ground?
If it's the play ground I think I'd be asking the school why this was happening and asking if it occours frequently!

At least he was OK though!
MrsT Offline
#9 Posted : 04 August 2008 00:00:00(UTC)
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Same place on his head!!
Wamchop Offline
#10 Posted : 05 August 2008 00:00:00(UTC)
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so just basically clumsy then? or do the kids have some sort of playground 'JackAss' thing going on?Wink
MrsT Offline
#11 Posted : 06 August 2008 00:00:00(UTC)
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you're right wamchop he is clumsy! we think he has mild adhd, well school do. He tripped over his sister at school the second time, and the third he was under a table and banged it. He's not as clumsy as his twin who is dyspraxic beyond belief!!! oh the joy of children!!!!!!

Wamchop Offline
#12 Posted : 07 August 2008 00:00:00(UTC)
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don't ya just love em
 

I made a bit of a hobby of falling over and hitting my head as a little un, the most spectacular being falling down a flight of wooden stairs, going through the banister (love that 70's style with no banister uprights) and hitting the wall opposite the stairs. Thankfully missing the radiator by a couple of inches!

 

And the voices say that I've turned out just fineWink
camster Offline
#13 Posted : 16 February 2009 00:00:00(UTC)
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oh the joy of insanity!!!!!
collins Offline
#14 Posted : 11 April 2009 00:00:00(UTC)
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so obviously all appointed first aiders that work in a nursery school have near enough the same training,so can i just ask anyone,if a 4yr old child had hit his head on a rock but wasn't knocked unconsious but had a large gash on his forehead and looked concussed and had also gone quiet,should the appointed first aider of phoned for a ambulance or taken the child to a&e???
Big Bill Offline
#15 Posted : 12 April 2009 00:00:00(UTC)
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Collins, I have replied to your post on your other topic about this!
 

As I say with the signs and symptoms that you mentioned I would personaly have called for an ambulance!
Mrs T Offline
#16 Posted : 12 April 2009 00:00:00(UTC)
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and I've replied to the other other post on this.
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