|
 Rank: Newbie Groups:
Joined: 27/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 0
Points: 0
|
I have recently had a student on a course that had just finished doing a First Aid Instructors course - they were taught to do CPR by putting the casualties head between their knees and then doing the compressions by leaning forward over the chest, rather than working from the side. They were also told to only teach using a full face mask with tube (ie a bagging mask). Please can any one tell me where this practice has come from?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Administrators, Registered Users, Subscribers
Joined: 23/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 21,770
Points: 65,322
Location: United Kingdom
Thanks: 1 times
|
Over the head CPR is often taught to air crew due to space limitations.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered Users, Subscribers
Joined: 27/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 822
Points: 2,466
|
Lady,
You are proposing to be a first aid instructor, yet you don't even seem to have watched Casualty.
LOL
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Newbie Groups:
Joined: 27/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 0
Points: 0
|
If I was to follow everything that was shown on Casualty then I would be doing operations with biros and rusty knives lol
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered Users, Subscribers
Joined: 25/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 261
Points: 783
|
A good trainer will teach and then get their students to practice CPR in different positions. Very rarely will a real casualty be in a classic classroom position when you get to them. The BVM is a bit of a concern though as this is not a standard piece of FA kit. However if the students in question have easy access to them in their workplace then they should be practiced in it's use.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Newbie Groups: Registered, Registered Users, Subscribers
Joined: 24/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 0
Points: 0
|
DOH DOH DOH why dont people like you read the question before posting idiot replies!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Newbie Groups: Registered Users, Subscribers
Joined: 27/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 0
Points: 0
|
 I have this week completed my AED(defib) refresher course, which was delivered by the Ambulance Service, and they demonstrated their CPR technique that way, as that is the way I believe the Ambulance Service are trained. Hope this helps
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Rank: Member Groups: Registered Users, Subscribers
Joined: 27/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 26
Points: 78
Location: Copford
|
Hi, If this helps we teach firefighters that method in London as their course is based on a team approach & allows the person at the head to use the BVM & AED while their colleague/s assist & take over compressions from the side. It came from the LAS who provide clinical governance for the course. Maybe the person was a firefighter or was taught by one? The protocol is slightly different too as they check pulse but obviously this isn't taught to civilian members of staff who have regular FAW with BLS protocols. Not sure why this has been taught to instructors for lay people though - bit worrying!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Forum_Moderators, Registered Users, Subscribers
Joined: 27/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 912
Points: 2,738
|
BVM - as previously stated, they only need to know IF they have them provided otherwise, what's the point??! As for casualty's head between knees - yep, can be done, as can 'straddling' the casualty's hips - BUT if teaching this, please warn learners about the sexual connotations which can be derived from said positions, &, as such, should only be used when 'traditional' side-on position cannot be used because of environmental constraints!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered Users, Subscribers
Joined: 27/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 309
Points: 927
|
There was a recent paper that looked at operator position during CPR and found that the traditional position kneeling next to the patient was the most effective.
I demonstrate over head CPR when I teach pre hospital professionals and when teaching ILS/ALS etc so the students can see during demos. Other wise clinically no need for it unless you are in the back of a vehicle.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Newbie Groups: Registered Users, Subscribers
Joined: 27/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 0
Points: 0
|
you should practice cpr in all positions as in real life casualties tend to get in the most awkward positions and places. we try to simulate students workplaces when doing courses espeshily confind space rescue units good luck
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Newbie Groups:
Joined: 27/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 0
Points: 0
|
I was taught that position with AED, it keeps you out the way of the operator.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Newbie Groups:
Joined: 27/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 0
Points: 0
|
Carrying out CPR over the head or sitting astride the casualty is appropriate for working in a confine space. As too using a bag, who carries a bag in first aid. Looks like another cowboy trying to impress, Use the KISS logic
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Newbie Groups: Registered Users, Subscribers
Joined: 11/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 0
Points: 0
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Newbie Groups: Registered, Registered Users, Subscribers
Joined: 24/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2
Points: 6
Location: United Kingdom
|
Community first rewsponders are taught this way
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member Groups: Registered Users, Subscribers
Joined: 11/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 25
Points: 75
|
Normal protocol is to apply CPR from the side and this has not changed.
The technique described is only viable in a multi person approach Ie A.L.S,(leaving room for drugs and Defib) bag and mask or in confined spaces.
it also is not as effective as you are pushing away from the heart and not directing the strokes directly over the top.
however its still useful to know.
Mike
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered, Registered Users, Subscribers
Joined: 04/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 81
Points: 243
Location: Northern Part of England. Above Yorkshire, below the Geordies.
|
CPR from the head end, is how solo reponders do it at work. That is officers, rapids or CFRs. It is not ideal for compressions, but it is the best way to ventilate a patient with a BVM (which is difficult from the side but possible). Once there is any form of back up, compressions are usually from the side and airway maintanence from the top.
For usual BLS then a side approach should be utilised, I do agree on getting people to try it form other access tho as Ive lost count of the times ive done CPR from straddling/standing the patient or even lying on my belly on thier bed leaning over the edge.
It comes back to instructors having real world experience............. surely?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered Users, Subscribers
Joined: 27/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,258
Points: 3,783
|
Guys, The OP did not mention a BVM at all, he stated " only teach using a full face mask with tube (ie a bagging mask)." The mask only!!
So technicaly the same as using a pocket mask!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered, Registered Users, Subscribers
Joined: 04/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 81
Points: 243
Location: Northern Part of England. Above Yorkshire, below the Geordies.
|
Originally Posted by: medicdog  Guys, The OP did not mention a BVM at all, he stated " only teach using a full face mask with tube (ie a bagging mask)." The mask only!!
So technicaly the same as using a pocket mask!
http://www.bostockhealth...bu0/prodlg/merlinmed.gifThat type.......? I find easier to use from the head end too... Maybe im just wierd! Anyhow i was meerly pointing out why where and how we use the head end. I wasnt advocating it as normal layman practice.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered Users, Subscribers
Joined: 27/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,258
Points: 3,783
|
Thats the one matey, I know this is becoming a regular practice, as the mask seems to in my opinion, provide not only a good barrier, but also a good seal when pressed down, the masks that come with the BVM also are regularly used on there own as a pocket type mask. Using a BVM is a "Practiced" skill which needs regular practice to enable competent use, so I dont envisage these being in everyday first aid kits. I aslo find CPR and Mask use easier, and prefferable at the head end as well, must make me weird to! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
|