That was a bit harsh PrivAmb.



Let us not forget that what is being asked here is that someone with Basic FAW training is being asked to administer a drug that has potentially serious side effects that if they occur will require remedial and urgent actions well outside of normal FAW training. Not a thing that your average First Aider is expected or required to do.



moomoo, make sure that you get proper training in the administration of this drug and recognition and dealing with the side effects, and that your employers agree to regular update training, with experience comes confidence.

Ok if i can take off my First Aid Hat and replace it with my HSE Hat, !!

Has a risk assessment been carried out here, if not why not. 

A full risk assessment should have been carried out a long time ago. 

If any thing happens here the HSE will be asking questions, via a riddor report of course.   

PrivAmb surely it is better to assist than to character assassinate? There is another thread on this site where you have been given a piece of advice and someone else has jumped to your defence. You obviously haven't listened to that advice.



Going back to the original question ' how do I stand as a first aider?' simple, as a first aider the giving of buccal midazolam is not covered. Therefore do not give it if you have not been trained.



I do not feel comfortable about the idea of jumping out of aircraft. But if I was trained to do so would you stop me from packing parachutes because of it?



Also, to correct you PrivAmb, the drug is not given because the patient is in status epilepticus but to help them to come out of the seizure and to stop them going into status.



I love these debates..

Ok i think we need to clam down a bit here.

The OP asked a question for advice.

A number of members here have offered advice.

As i said a risk assessment should have been, or has been carried out of this situation.

The school or LEA has a duty of care to this young student, YES it has. !!

If the OP Has done nothing, or isnt happy with the repilies from here then so be it.

It will be him / Her in trouble should any accident arises.



I think the name calling should all stop, and lets just take a chill pill here folks.

We are all here to help and advise / pass on information, as and where we can.

A few years ago this site it got a little hairy at times and serious action was brought in by Admin.

If we can help people out then fine, if that person isnt happy with the infomation passed on then fine.

That becomes there problem.



As ye ole saying You can lead a horse to water, but can you make it drink it.??? !!!.

If your job is to care for people, you do it to the best of your ability. You cut no corners, you do not refuse training. If you are some cowardly wall flower, then kindly step away and let someone else do it instead. Nobody needs you and definately nobody wants you and above all nobody deserves you. They did not ask for you. You placed yourself in the postion to react at their time of need. Do the decent thing and quit before someone dies because of inaction.

Admin, please stop and think before heading for the delete key. A person works in a care setting with people with known medical conditions. They are a works first aider and are to be sent on additional training that they do not want to go on because they do not feel confident - That could be any training for any job that amounts to safety training. There is an obligation to provide it and there is an obligation to attend. Anything less, its a breach of contract and they get the tin tack. They come on a forum, and receive gash advice from people who do not understand and have never done it. Even a long standing nurse learns something. They come on the same forum 2 months later, no better trained, stating the same case and receive gash advice. All that needs to happen is the person in their care goes status in their presense. Instead of acting, they do the DRABC thing because they are really good at that, then call the ambulance service who send a technician in a car to stop the clock. Said child in Skoda estate can do next to nothing so calls up for an ambulance who is 30 minutes away after swilling out the remnants of the last drunk they have carted away on behalf of the police who will no longer lock up drunks because of "elf n safety" Meantime of course, the patient dies. A (probing) conversation takes place and it turns out the first aider failed to do anything about their alleged concerns for a full 2 months other than get some gash advice from an internet forum he/she prints out as a defence to their inaction. The website is interrogated and the coroners officer finds some posts from an absolute straight talking ogre of a man who thinks that this person should either man up, or go away and states his reasons why (me). He comes under wishy washy criticism and even gets threatened with moderation. There may even be some ego's harmed beyond repair and some people's actual and real background brought into questions. None of this takes away the fact that all the patient needed was a syringe partially full of liquid being squirted into his mouth by a person paid to care for him who would do it with glucogel quite willingly to be awarded a "hypo hero" medal and there is no problem This is of course all academic as the patient is now cold and stiff with a grieving family wanting answers. I am not sorry for telling it the way it is. At the end of all of this rubbish is someone who could die. The original poster should stick to being a classroom assistant or whatever they are and leave the first aid to people who will willingly take on the training rather than phoning up some ward clerk to get the gen on a drug delivered IV in entirely different circumstances and in different dosages and strenghts than the PO Buccal route. I used to have this problem all the time with my grandmother who for 40 odd years was a doctors receptionist, which according to her made her about as qualified as the doctors she managed appointments for. She eventually got to know her place, because I put her in it many times when she spouted off until she kept it buttoned when advising people on their malignant tumor or what drugs they ought to be taking for the pain in their chest that was "just a touch of indigetion because they ate a citrus fruit before a main meal" I personally provided an authentic document on the administration of said drug. Yes I am passionate about first aid, because 80 percent of what I do for (note not to) patients is simply first aid. Wamth, comfort, reassurance. What I will not stand for is the uneducated substituting their mis shapen views when at the end of the story a person who cannot look after themselves could die. Argue as much as you like about banadaging and the god awful W position, but this subject as no valid argument that could be subtantiated by any person holding a first aid role who is refusing, whining and cliping about additional life saving training. In my employ they would have two options, course - and pass it, or job centre.

Well ta for that, but I would rather that someone closer to the patient has their back rather than some bloke on an internet forum. If the patient's needs are forgotton about or put in second place to one's own needs or desires, then its the patient who suffers and that in my mind is avoidable and unacceptable. There are far too many self important and selfish healthcare professionals out there, and it is only when organisations such as the CQC raid maternity wards, A+E's such as the Stafford case and ambulance services such as EMAS that the level of failings are ever unconvered and by that time they are responding to and report catasrophy . A first aid ticket is not a scout badge to sew on your pullover. It is confirmation of a level of competence that compliments your willingness to do what others will not for the benefit of someone else. It is not purely a technical skill backed up by a book.

Hi, no I'm not offended. Just concerned that there is a patient who will not get the care they deserve or are entitled to at their time of need. You have already identified that the drug could in certain cases result in respiritory depression, but you would treat them no different to anyone else with ineffective breathing - supportive ventillations one every 6 seconds via your pocket mask or face shield.. The good news is, as a result of your actions they are not going to stop breathing permanently. The dose and route you would be giving is mild compared to the dose given through a vein in hosptial and the effects will in no way be as marked. In hospital you want to "knock them off". In a status episode you are simply relaxing them a little. Nothing more. You give the drug by drawing it up in a syringe and then having someone confirm the amount drawn up. In professional practice you show the vial to another person who confirms the drug, strength and amount drawn up, along with the date. The same would be for yourself. Administration is very simple. You simply slowly squirt the contents into the lowermost cheek so it is absorbed through the tissues - the same as you would with glucogel. No more difficult or sinister than that. The standard of training you have had to press relects entirely on the instructor and their experiences. I am concerned that you are so litigation fearful that you have got it into your head that you would be made a "scapegoat" when it intevitably goes wrong. What can go wrong? It it will not take a fool enough to do the job. It takes someone willing to take additional training from a healthcare professional. Its a syrup, just like Calpol. You would draw it up in a syringe no bigger than the dose you are giving, to safeguard against overdose, so if you do not overdose them, it cannot go wrong can it???? You are using no needle, so you cannot accidentally pierce a vein or an artery, as with epipens. Thousands of first aiders, carers, and relatives are trained in this every year with no issue. If you are concerned about the quality of the training, contact the local hosptial Resuscitation Training Department and book training with them to give you confidence. I will guarantee you that if you do not get trained up, and there is a long wait for the ambulance whilst the person in your care fits to death, you will wish you had. Somebody has to do it, so why not you? If you give the stated dose in the way you are trained and monitor and react to reduced breathing effort, nothing, and I mean nothing will go wrong and everything will go right. Do not let hyped up fairly tales of litigation prevent you from delivering the best care to your patient.