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Lofstedt Report - Removes HSE training provider approvals
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Joined: 27/05/2011(UTC)
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well said marty!!
reading thru the forum differnat dates have been quoted, OFQUAL non OFQUAL routes etc.
Never a proper answer............
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The reason why there is no consistency in the answers you seek is becasue no-one knows.........
HSE are being driven by the Minister, Chris Grayling, to comply with the recomendations in Lofsedt. There are three times between now and the end of 2013 when this can happen as it requires a change in legislation and therefore an act of parliament.
These are; broadly, October 2012, March 2013 and October 2013 (see the pattern).
At this point in time no-one, but no-one knows for sure - except maybe Chris Grayling and he's not telling.
Lofstedt reccomends the HSE cease their approval function (big whoops of joy at FAAMS I would imagine) however he states that 'deregulation' should not lead to a drop in standards.
So here we are ladies and gents.... in the shell of a nut.
In a deregulated environment it will be up to you how you maintain standards and thusly demonstrate quality to your client. If you want to belong to one of the Associations and think that will be enough then great! If you want to become a centre for one of the various awarding organisations and think that will do it, equally great!
However in a deregulated enviornment there is nothing to stop you paddling your own canoe (and if you think that 'going it alone' will breed consumer confidence - jolly good for you).
I cannot stress enough it will come down to how you demonstrate the quality of your training - quality breeds consumer confidence. Consumer confidence breeds good business. Good business keeps a roof over your head!
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if its about quality I have nothing to fear then!
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We will probably be alright with our regular customers. It is the new customers looking to purchase a can of beans first aid course that will be the hardest to succeed with
I'm glad I am due to retire in 2 years and 2 weeks
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I dont know where you are getting the impression that the industry will be deregulated. Here is an extract from the report:
In fact the regulations do not insist upon a particular number of first-aid personnel118 and there is a requirement for employers to make provision for first-aid under the Framework Directive 89/391. However, the regulations do currently stipulate that the training and qualifications for the appointed first-aid person must be approved by HSE and this appears to both go beyond the requirements of the Directive and have little justification. So long as they meet a certain standard, allowing businesses to choose training providers should allow them greater flexibility to choose what is right for their workplace, and possibly reduce costs.
A standardin my dictionary says "thing serving as a basis, example, or principle to which others (should) conform, or by which others are judged. 2. Average quality. 3.Required level of quality or proficiency 4. serving as or conforming to a standard.
So to meet a certain standard there has to be a set standard for us all to meet. No way will the government allow us to set our own standards as individuals as this will be total mayhem. Provider (A) will think a plaster and a pat on the back would be good enough whilst provider (B) is performing invasive procedures with biros and razor blades and nobody out there will be saying this is wrong as long as the provider is conforming to their own standard.
Or just maybe the standard will be decided by Ofqual.
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered Users, Subscribers
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Surely the HSE cannot have the audacity to still tell us what must go into our courses? If they walk away then they should have absolutely no input whatsoever.
Before I registered with the HSE I spent a lot of time looking into alternative options and asked plenty of questions.
My thoughts at the time and still are was that the IHCD FPOS 3 day course was actually a better and more useful way to go, with the rapid introduction of AED's and the relative simplicity of O2 therapy it reflects the customers needs better.
I actually spoke to the HSE about this and basically said "if an employer has risk assessed their needs and decides that they require AED training would this course meet their obligations with regards to the first aid regs?"
Quite simply the answer recieved was NO, they must undergo HSE approved training and would have to "bolt on" any additional needs afterwards. Hence my continuing to proceed down the HSE route.
To be perfectly honest not many employers would have the time and or money to conduct extra training when what they have already covered themselves legally.
With their departure I am now thinking that yet again the FPOS is a credible option and will be very disappointed if an organisation (HSE) which has already screwed me over has the bloody cheek to dictate that this does not meet their criteria for an approved syllabus.
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What worries me with the OFQUAL rout is that I have seen some of the courses that they are responsible for, and it looks like a mass paper exercise:
Did the student do this. tick box
Did the student do that. tick box
Did the student do one hundred and one other things. tick box after box after box.
The paperwork generated would take up half a FAW course and there is no assessment of the students capabilities except TICK THE BOX....
Forgive me, but I thought that First Aid was a practical subject, you know, a contact sport as I have been known to describe it to my students.... getting down and dirty in the gutter trying to save someone's life, that, to me, means that any assessment should be practical based, not tick boxes.
If OFQUAL get their hands on First Aid then lots of people will suffer the effects, trainers, students and in some cases casualties.
*Gets off soapbox*
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Originally Posted by: Witchfinder 
Did the student do this. tick box
Did the student do that. tick box
Forgive me, but I thought that First Aid was a practical subject,
I think the key words there are did they DO this and that rather than did they answer the MCQ correctly or did they listen intently for three days or did they appreciate the little stories about the first aid that the trainer has done in the past. I have been on a Paediatric course recently run by the market leader in my area and it was two and a half hours on the first day before I left my seat to do any first aid and then on the second day I did not leave my seat at all. The only assessment of whether or not I should get a certificate was a blatently easy 20 question MCQ. This was not an Ofqual accredited course, but it was from a highly regarded firm with an HSE number run by somebody who is individually well respected in the first aid industry with fingers in many pies. That was not including the small matter of not doing enough hours, not covering the all the designated topics, the trainer not knowing the candidates names, not seeing if they could actually do the first aid and even giving incorrect information. Ofqual regulation (if done properly) will prevent these things. Non-regulated can also do this, but how many would go for the easier, cheaper life? If that non-regulated Certificate of Attendance course is anything to go by, the bit of paper is not worth the paper it was printed on. Still, I needed the bit of paper, so I sat intently, listened and laughed in the appropriate places.
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In all honesty, I don't think Ofqual will improve the situation, for the same reason the HSE has failed. Until it is the trainers who are assessed individually, there will always be work for someone who may not be particularly good, but whose name gets passed around when a company is in a tight spot to fill a training slot.
Fortunately we are small, and we do not use trainers who are not part of our organisation. If we can't cover it from within, we don't take the job. It is the only way to maintain standards.
Yes, we have lost a few customers over the years, but actually, most we have kept, and they actually understand our stance (and some of them have suffered rubbish contract trainers before they came to us) and seek mutually convenient arrangements. We actually use as a "selling point" that we will not use contract trainers.
(So all those of you who have written to me in the past asking for work, you will understand now why I have declined your services)
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