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Lofstedt Report - Removes HSE training provider approvals
Marty B Offline
#106 Posted : 07 March 2012 19:50:50(UTC)
Marty B

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I dont know where you are getting the impression that the industry will be deregulated. Here is an extract from the report:

In fact the regulations do not insist upon a particular number of first-aid personnel118 and there is a requirement for employers to make provision for first-aid under the Framework Directive 89/391. However, the regulations do currently stipulate that the training and qualifications for the appointed first-aid person must be approved by HSE and this appears to both go beyond the requirements of the Directive and have little justification. So long as they meet a certain standard, allowing businesses to choose training providers should allow them greater flexibility to choose what is right for their workplace, and possibly reduce costs.

A standardin my dictionary says "thing serving as a basis, example, or principle to which others (should) conform, or by which others are judged. 2. Average quality. 3.Required level of quality or proficiency 4. serving as or conforming to a standard.

So to meet a certain standard there has to be a set standard for us all to meet. No way will the government allow us to set our own standards as individuals as this will be total mayhem. Provider (A) will think a plaster and a pat on the back would be good enough whilst provider (B) is performing invasive procedures with biros and razor blades and nobody out there will be saying this is wrong as long as the provider is conforming to their own standard.

Or just maybe the standard will be decided by Ofqual.
patch Offline
#107 Posted : 07 March 2012 20:27:42(UTC)

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HSE syllabus.
Marty B Offline
#108 Posted : 09 March 2012 17:32:28(UTC)
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Surely the HSE cannot have the audacity to still tell us what must go into our courses? If they walk away then they should have absolutely no input whatsoever.

Before I registered with the HSE I spent a lot of time looking into alternative options and asked plenty of questions.

My thoughts at the time and still are was that the IHCD FPOS 3 day course was actually a better and more useful way to go, with the rapid introduction of AED's and the relative simplicity of O2 therapy it reflects the customers needs better.

I actually spoke to the HSE about this and basically said "if an employer has risk assessed their needs and decides that they require AED training would this course meet their obligations with regards to the first aid regs?"

Quite simply the answer recieved was NO, they must undergo HSE approved training and would have to "bolt on" any additional needs afterwards. Hence my continuing to proceed down the HSE route.

To be perfectly honest not many employers would have the time and or money to conduct extra training when what they have already covered themselves legally.

With their departure I am  now thinking that yet again the FPOS is a credible option and will be very disappointed if an organisation (HSE) which has already screwed me over has the bloody cheek to dictate that this does not meet their criteria for an approved syllabus.
Witchfinder Offline
#109 Posted : 12 March 2012 13:36:33(UTC)

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What worries me with the OFQUAL rout is that I have seen some of the courses that they are responsible for, and it looks like a mass paper exercise:

Did the student do this. tick box

Did the student do that. tick box

Did the student do one hundred and one other things. tick box after box after box.

The paperwork generated would take up half a FAW course and there is no assessment of the students capabilities except TICK THE BOX....

Forgive me, but I thought that First Aid was a practical subject, you know, a contact sport as I have been known to describe it to my students.... getting down and dirty in the gutter trying to save someone's life, that, to me, means that any assessment should be practical based, not tick boxes.

If OFQUAL get their hands on First Aid then lots of people will suffer the effects, trainers, students and in some cases casualties.

*Gets off soapbox*
Bingers Offline
#110 Posted : 12 March 2012 22:15:32(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: Witchfinder Go to Quoted Post

Did the student do this. tick box

Did the student do that. tick box

Forgive me, but I thought that First Aid was a practical subject,

I think the key words there are did they DO this and that rather than did they answer the MCQ correctly or did they listen intently for three days or did they appreciate the little stories about the first aid that the trainer has done in the past.

I have been on a Paediatric course recently run by the market leader in my area and it was two and a half hours on the first day before I left my seat to do any first aid and then on the second day I did not leave my seat at all.  The only assessment of whether or not I should get a certificate was a blatently easy 20 question MCQ.  This was not an Ofqual accredited course, but it was from a highly regarded firm with an HSE number run by somebody who is individually well respected in the first aid industry with fingers in many pies.

That was not including the small matter of not doing enough hours, not covering the all the designated topics, the trainer not knowing the candidates names, not seeing if they could actually do the first aid and even giving incorrect information.  Ofqual regulation (if done properly) will prevent these things.  Non-regulated can also do this, but how many would go for the easier, cheaper life?  If that non-regulated Certificate of Attendance course is anything to go by, the bit of paper is not worth the paper it was printed on.  Still, I needed the bit of paper, so I sat intently, listened and laughed in the appropriate places.
JonAcc Offline
#111 Posted : 13 March 2012 00:02:36(UTC)

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In all honesty, I don't think Ofqual will improve the situation, for the same reason the HSE has failed. Until it is the trainers who are assessed individually, there will always be work for someone who may not be particularly good, but whose name gets passed around when a company is in a tight spot to fill a training slot.

Fortunately we are small, and we do not use trainers who are not part of our organisation. If we can't cover it from within, we don't take the job. It is the only way to maintain standards.

Yes, we have lost a few customers over the years, but actually, most we have kept, and they actually understand our stance (and some of them have suffered rubbish contract trainers before they came to us) and seek mutually convenient arrangements. We actually use as a "selling point" that we will not use contract trainers.

(So all those of you who have written to me in the past asking for work, you will understand now why I have declined your services)
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