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 Rank: Member Groups: Registered, Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 23/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 15 Points: 45 Location: UK
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For decades I have been teaching FAAW students that tourniquets are a No, No because if it is incorrectly applied they can be detrimental to patients - lead to compartment syndrome, build up of toxins, ineffective haemorrhage control and so on.
However CATs have been around in the civilian arena of ambulance work for a few years now and is the accepted norm for catastrophic bleeds of limbs. Taught from ECA through to ECP level.
Does anyone know if there is a move toward etching this in FAW courses yet?
thanks
Pond Life
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 Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 25/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 261 Points: 783
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My opinion on this is that it can be included so long as you explain very carefully the circumstances when you would use it.
I do not teach using a CAT as this is not a first aid piece of equipment that they are likely to have but instead demonstrate (on myself) a bandage tightened using a pen or similar object.
Be aware of your audiences abilities! when I work in a college teaching 16-18 year olds I probably would not go there but normally my candidates are fairly sensible.
The bottom line is this: tourniquets (if used in the right circumstances) are a life saving intervention and as we are in the business of saving lives it makes no sense (to me) not to include it when teaching.
Depending on the candidates role e.g. tree surgeons I would also explain/inform them about Celox and Quickclot as well.
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 Rank: Member Groups: Registered, Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 23/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 15 Points: 45 Location: UK
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Thanks for the input Marty. sound advise. cheers Mike
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 Rank: Member Groups: Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 27/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 25 Points: 75
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I tried, without success, to get a definitive answer from "our friends" at the HSE..... after much deliberation, I was told...
"The Health and Safety (First-Aid) Regulations 1981 require employers to provide adequate and appropriate equipment, facilities and personnel to ensure their employees receive immediate attention if they are injured or taken ill at work".
I feel we are on very thin ice with this one..... I'm sure in a court of law "the wigs" would look at the VAS first aid manual as a source of reference.... there is no mention of the use of a tourniquet in it!
I concur with Marty B, it depends on your audience. I do not teach it routinely, however if I feel there is justification in its use (the potential of a catastrophic bleed) I will teach it, along with the "modified" primary survey, C - ABC.
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 Rank: Administration Groups: Forum_Moderators, Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 27/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 732 Points: 2,214
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I know (like many ex military here) i was taught this many moons ago but now it still i think is taught in special cases and to special people.
But no i do not teach that now and have not for many many years now.
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 Rank: Member Groups: Registered, Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 23/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 15 Points: 45 Location: UK
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Originally Posted by: yogi760  I snip...
I concur with Marty B, it depends on your audience. I do not teach it routinely, however if I feel there is justification in its use (the potential of a catastrophic bleed) I will teach it, along with the "modified" primary survey, C - ABC.
I was under the impression that all levels of 'clinicians' were now being taught CAcBCDE. I will inform but not educate in this instance unless relevant as per Martys suggestion.
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 Rank: Newbie Groups: Registered, Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 16/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 1 Points: 3 Location: United Kingdom
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With regards to teaching Tourniquet in FAAW lessons i would suggest no, as it is not in the first aid manual and if any one of your students tries to use it and gets it wrong then the finger will come pointing straight back to you.
I teach Army Cadet Personel (Both Cadets and staff) many of which are Ex or seving military. I will give information about the CAT but will add " the current protocol is not to use them. But if when you leave this room, on your head be it".
Prehaps a bit contradictory but actually carry one in my personal kit, i hope i never have to use it but if it will save a life then i am prepared to take the personal risk of litigation.
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 Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 27/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,146 Points: 3,441 Location: United Kingdom
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CAcBCDE is not universally taught in first aid. As others have said it depends on my audience as to who I teach it to.
One of the problems is that for most people a small cut to the head would look like a catastrophic Bleed.
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 Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 25/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,270 Points: 3,810
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
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One of the problems is that for most people a small cut to the head would look like a catastrophic Bleed.
And they would be putting the tourniquet round the patient's neck!
Sorry folks. Couldn't resist that one
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 Rank: Member Groups: Registered, Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 23/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 15 Points: 45 Location: UK
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I was teaching a bunch of people who did things like tree felling and working on the land. They asked me about tourniquets in the bleeding/wound part of the lesson. Specifically they asked if what they heard was correct - that the ambulance service carried tourniquets. So I said they did as it is now acceptable for for ECA/Techs an Paras to use them. and I moved swiftly on.... :-)
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 Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 25/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 245 Points: 738
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I usually teach my candidates to use a tournequet after the emergency tracheotomy, and before making an improvised AED with a table lamp.
Ian
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 Rank: Member Groups: Registered, Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 23/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 15 Points: 45 Location: UK
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and on occasion you go waaaay off plan and teach granny knots instead of reef knots for triangular bandages.
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