Absolutely

Ofqual is certainly not going to be the only alternative and for many independents it is unlikely to be the best alternative.

Regardless of what is claimed there is a conflict of interest between many of the awarding bodies and their training companies.

Most awarding bodies will also produce training materials and publications which of course they will insist that you buy from them, at their price.

There is a lot of money involved in this which is why so many have jumped on the Ofqual band wagon.

It seems that most of the money is likely to come from the pockets of the independent trainers who will be expected to pay more for less choice and less independence.

SOMEONE TELL ME IF IM WRONG  BUT IF OFQUAL APPROVES YOUR AWARDING BODY, WILL THAT MEAN THAT FIRST AID TRAINING GOES FROM A HEALTH AND SAFETY TYPE COURSE TO AN EDUCATIONAL TYPE COURSE, AND WITH THE ADDITION OF A MINIMAL TEACHING QUALIFICATION, DOES THAT MEAN FIRST AID WOULD ATTRACT FUNDING FROM THE SKILLS TRAINING AGENCY OR HAVE I GOT IT ALL WRONG

Again, happy to be told I'm wrong but you do not need a formal teaching qualification to deliver First Aid. As I understand it colleges who employ tutors formally (PAYE/NI etc that's the important part) have a requirement for those tutors to hold a minimum teaching qualification. However, those same colleges that might contract external training providers do not have to apply those same standards on the tutor that the external provider sends in  (I do hope that makes sense)

Paul

PS As an afterthought AO's wouldn't dare apply such a minimum standard such as Cert Ed etc - they would lose far too much potential revenue from those independent trainers who don't have one!

It is possible for certain educational institutions like colleges to attract funding for accredited first aid qualifications, but how it is done and how much per person is very complicated.  I've tried to find out many a time, but it is not an easy task.  Your best bet is to find a friendly business manager at a local college and have a chat with them.  My advice would be to have some headache tablets for afterwards.



Good luck.

It looks as if the HSE will be requiring the same qualifications and / or experience for Ofqual qualifications. This is the current situation for the Ofqual EFAW. In the future it is highly likely that the bar be raised. This would then fall in line with colleges etc.

As for funding, Ofqual qualifications will attract funding if and when funding becomes available.

JEFFK - Please don’t shout. Ofqual Awarding Organisations offer a wide range of qualifications from A levels to dementia to food hygiene.

I truly believe that becoming a Centre under an Awarding Organisation will improve both your business and the training.

Some may moan that you need a lot of written policies however; the majority make good sense, for example say the Equal Ops Policy, the Data Protection policy or even a complaints policy. All good things to consider even for a small business.

PS. I’ve changed the name of the topic to something more relevant.

Im sorry for shouting but its not really its just capital letters



The point i was raising was,  The Skills Funding Agency (who hold all the money) do not at present provide Funding for first aid courses so that a training company can offer First Aid training to, say the unemployed. this is because First aid isnt a formal qualification.



However in the future if Ofqual approve a First Aid Providers Courses then it does become a formal Qualification



However to attract funding from the Skills Funding Agency  (Public money)  then its a requirement to have a minimum of a PTLLS qual to show that although you know first aid like the back of your hand, you are able to deliver the course to an educational standard,ie recognising learning styles, inclusion, Equality etc



so its ok just being a provider but there is an opertunity in the future for those who want to grasp the nettle to actually provide first aid training not only to those who need/want it but to provide it to a far wider circle

that was my point

The Skills Funding website  has all the details

One for ADMIN... I see you've changed the title of this chat to something more relevent... relevent to who?

Is this the kind of contol we can expect in the future from our AO's? There was nothing wrong with the title as the forum discussion was about the role of training companies who have also become AO's and therefore are going to be taking a chunk of cash from thier competitors... Not more of the same old will they won't they from the self proclaiming experts (AO's) who have no more than a crystal ball as to guess what is going to happen in the future.... Or do they... to be cont.

I'm not sure I read it that way. The HSE, as a governing body is unable, by the rules of impartiality to endorse one company or another. What they are perhaps saying is "we are unable to formally endorse trade/Industry bodies and therefore there are no plans to recognise...."



The following is a letter from the HSE

11 May 2012

HEALTH AND SAFETY (FIRST-AID) REGULATIONS 1981

Minster Chris Grayling has asked me to thank you for your recent correspondence regarding the changes to the Health and Safety (First-aid) Regulations 1981, which were a recommendation of Professor Ragnar Löfstedt in his independent review of Health and Safety legislation, and to respond on his behalf.

It was Professor Löfstedt’s intention to open the market and allow employers greater flexibility and choice of training provider - so long as the training was up to the standard required.  Removing HSE approval means that the selection, monitoring and review of first-aid training providers becomes the responsibility of the employer.  This is in line with Professor Löfstedt’s thoughts – having mandated HSE to improve its guidance for employers in this area.

Feedback to HSE shows however that many employers will simply seek to find in-built assurance similar to that they gained from HSE Approval in whatever guise is available.  That may be found in a Trade Body Approval and Monitoring scheme, or from a nationally approved and accredited qualification delivered by an Ofqual Awarding Organisation.  Some training providers may choose to attach themselves to one approval system or another, whilst others may choose to continue as a stand-alone unit relying on their quality and reputation to secure market share.  Any choice of future associations lies with the training organisations. 

HSE’s interests lie in maintaining the standards of first aid available in the work place.  The future shape of the first-aid training sector going forward is a matter for the industry to determine. 

The Government has accepted Professor Löfstedt’s recommendations in full and they therefore form Government policy. The key requirements relating to first aid require legislative change.  HSE is now working to deliver this new policy and the necessary legislative change. 

In order to support the changes required, HSE has obtained views from across the sector including those from duty holders as well as interested parties.  In order to get these views, HSE has undertaken some informal consultation and in doing so has tried to seek views from varied sources.   This will inform and direct public consultation (due later this year).

At this stage it has not been practical to involve large numbers of individual consultees and so HSE has looked to organisations that could perhaps provide umbrella representation.  In terms of representing independent first aid training providers, HSE has entered into dialogue with The Association of First Aiders (AOFA), The Federation of First Aid Training Organisations (FOFATO), and The First Aid Council for Training (FACT – formerly AIFAWTO).

First Aid Training Provider, will be given sufficient notice of the date on which HSE will cease to approve training providers.  That date is not yet finalised, but we hope to be able to inform you of our plans in the near future.

Training Organisations will also be able to respond to the formal consultation later this year, where individual thoughts can be aired and influence applied.  The consultation will be publicly advertised but approved providers will be informed via the first aid newsletter.

I hope you have found this helpful.

I don’t think the HSE is biased or prohibited for stating Ofqual, it’s another government, non-commercial organisation that regulates commercial organisation. Just in the same way FSA regulates thousands of commercial financial businesses.

 

Don’t forget the Lofstedt report started regarding FA training ‘As long as it meets a certain standard’ the HSE remains in control of the ‘standard’ and hence how this standard it met. 



The crux of the matter is who regulates the Trade Body. If the HSE regulated it then that would be different.

 

If a Trade Body wants to regulate and be credible, then interestingly, there is no reason why a Trade Body could not get regulated by Ofqual. There is nothing in the rules that state that a cost per certificate should be made, in fact Ofqual are very keen to encourage a competitive marketplace. Don’t forget, Ofqual does not charge anything for their services including approvals and inspections of Awarding Organisations. However, their QA requirements are more stringent than the HSE, but we have all stated that standards should be improved and validated so the Ofqual route would enable this. Further there is nothing directly prohibiting training providers from printing their own certificates.

 

We (AoFAQ) are looking at different charging models as it does seem unfair that the larger training providers will inherently pay more overall on a cost per certificate basis. Likewise, for the smaller training provider the cost of monitoring visits may seem disproportionate to the amount of trainees. But this would be the same even if the Trade Body model was taken. Inspections in all models are required and the same costs and charges will be incurred.

 

Becoming an Ofqual recognised Awarding Body (AO) is not a ticket to print money, there’s also a considerable amount of competition; I think there are 14 or 16 AOs offering first aid qualifications.



The costs of any comprehensive and credible Approving/Governing system will be similar whether it does its ‘own thing’ or under Ofqual as the same or similar QA processes will inherently be required.

Hardly "A sign of things to come" as the SJA has had a Commercial Trainning Division for a few years now.  It employs a lot more than 25 people and makes more than £1.4 mil. I would say St Andrew are playing catch up.