this just shows how screwed up the whole thing is!



we have Awarding bodies telling us to use them or we wont be able to train first aid

we have industry bodies teling us to use them

we have the hSE telling us nothing



everyone is jumping to conclusions



the end result will just be :



greater cost and confusion for employers

yet more price based cut throat competition for  what little business there is

employers taking the lowest price, shortest time required option



the only come back will be when HSE prosecute for failure to provide first aid!

I for one cant wait for a bit consistancy in both the delivery of courses and methods used in training, Im sure we have all had trainees who have shocked us about the things we have learnt on previous courses.

Totally agree with Admin I did Change Theory at uni its human nature to resist change and in the majority of cases once the change has been made everyone agrees its for the better, those that dont either dont understand the need for change or dont have all the facts

My awarding body sent me out there changes today and I can see where they are going quality wise, they have the Ofqual approval and are rolling it out to us

The main changes seem to be

Having the recognised educational qualification to teach not just first aid but recognise what’s going on in the learning process

Having Internal verifier to self check the standard of training your providing as well as external verification

Making someone responsible/accountable for the who business and its systems

And tightening up on a host of policies and standards

I’m sure this is all for the good and have been requested by Ofqual as part of a tightening up process

I wont say who my awarding body is as there was a confidentiality clause

but as i said before in an earlier text, bring it on

Ok. Simple questions to ask yourself

1) Is it a legal requirement to register and operate under an Awarding Body? No
2) What happens if I don't register with one and carry on as normal? Nothing
3) Was it ever a requirement to have C&G 730* quals and D3* quals to teach and assess? No
4) Did the HSE FAAMS ever respond to any complaints and shut anyone down? No
5) Are FAAMS to be shut down because they were acting out of remit? They already have been - they have no office or means of contact any longer
6) Are these quango awarding body nonsenses impartial - it would appear not - see http://www.fofato.co.uk/
7) Are they any good - well having done an SIA course under the HABC umbrella (umbrella awarding bodies just simply mean franchised allowing others to dip their nose into the trough), I would say most definately and categorically not. I am sure more of this will become evident when they are picking through the bones of the olympics and all those people who should never have gained a pass let alone SIA registration having completed a HABC course like the poor quality one I attended (and dobbed them in for offering first aid qualifications they should not have been offering as a "bolt on" - exactly how you can do that with no CPR manikins is anyone;s guess.
8) What will happen if I don't register? It means no bureaucracy, no idiots turning up on your doorstep demanding to see your equal opportunities policy, then "assessing the quality of your teaching" by their very own low standards gained after extensive experience of putting plasters on colleagues in the accounts payable office of a local cement delivery firm.

Some of you are planning to spend money with these people, others are "strongly suggesting" that you must, and that one is better than the other. If a purchaser wants to purchase a course with an OFQUAL logo on it, they are free to do so. Same as any person can insist that the private ambulance service they use is NAPAS or BAA registered. There are plenty of such services who are not CQC registered who are members of one or the other, and hundreds more that are members of none. The only question to ask as a purchser is "does my contracted in service need a CQC registration for the work I intend them to do"? A CQC one will be more expensive. And that is the crux of the matter. Cost, and Kudos, and lawful requirement. Cost, well a company that is paying a quango will pass those costs onto the customer. Therefore an OFQUAL or HABC "registered" company will charge more. Kudos? Would you want such a logo on your first aid certificates when they have hand in hand alongside the SIA, G4S and LOCOG made the olympics into a laughing stock? No I woyldn't either. Lawful requirement? None. And that is why I am not bothered about these people plugging pointless quangos which amount to nothing more than opportunists preying on the uninformed - a bit like rogue traders who prey on the elderly using persuasion and intimidation to extract money.

If you see an advert and it catches your eye "all trainers and examiners are currently serving or have served in the ambulance service, military medical units, nursing and RNLI and bring THEIR experience to YOUR students at competitive prices", then you see another "all trainers are backed up with piles and piles of pointless paperwork and most have never treated anything beyond a scald after a nasty gossiping accident at the company vending maching but we have this lovely, lovely important looking logo to put on the certificates", which might you go for. Until they make it law that I have to become a member of this pointless gravy train, I will not. End of!

Admin, didn't seem petty. Just shooting from the hip. Nothing at all wrong with that

There are some dire paramedics and nurses (there was a nurse here once who used to big herself up all the time) involved in training. Its usually because for whatever reason they can no longer do the job they were originally trained for and try their hand at being an expert.

We don't just teach first aid. We are clinical skills educators. Simple stuff taught well makes for good practice hence everything gets taught minus ego. When you have some idiot asking your students " how long would you leave someone in the recovery position before you turned them over onto the other side (and lost their airway after you put them onto their back which then proceeded to fill with vomit and blood)" and then setting out to fail a student who cannot answer because I have not taught that because this is Ilford, not Iraq and the ambulance will be here presently, then that is where the cookbook first aid trainers end up coming unstuck.

First aid trainers with no experience ask dumb questions. They teach dumb things, and its because of how they interpret, not what they have experienced. As far as they are concerned all Epileptics fit, all Anaphylaxis have big red swollen tongues, you can't give anything sugary to a diabetic in case they are hyper and the sugar might kill them. I have heard so much of this rubbish recently.

Looking at other "good" first aid diktats such as no tourniquation, removing dressings and replacing them because the wound so severe that direct pressure will not manage it so its like taking a slash into the sea, applying triangular bandages to people who refuse to let you touch them, and they will continue to do this sort of nonesence under the auspices of an AO. I do however ask which hat(s) you ask me, as you run a trade association, an insurance broker, a website with a forum, an AO, are mates with the uncontactable FAAMS and are a first aider/instructor.

Like you and your problem with nurses and paramedics being automatically granted position by FAAMS who are not up to the job, I also have issues with people granted instructor status by FAAMS and AO's (or at least not prevented from being so) who are equally not up to the job.

Show me a route, that is enacted in law, that guarantees to one and all that the instructor is competent and the students will benefit, I will sign up. Try and sell me your quango, I will not be interested.

I'm glad they do becasue with an attitude like that you certainly won't be getting any new ones.

I'm with Paul on this one



there is a lot of mud slinging going on but as yet no one has told "us" what the future of first aid training will be - we and the AO & others are just guessing at the landscape



We too would have had many thousands to pass on to our clients this past year if we had AO costs

however like food safety- anyone can teach a course - but the client chooses whether to pay for AO certification or not- about 65% of our clients chose not pay for H&S and Food safety as they know we deliver good training, from experience that meets legal requirements



Lets see what the landscape looks like then draw the map!! at the moment we have blackaddder drawings of no mans land (see blackadder 4!!)

You may wish to delete the privamb2 user as I think its a troll on a bicycle.