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Forgive me if this has already been covered, but I am new on here! Recently started working as a 1st aid trainer and have a question should we advise to induce vomiting after swallowing tablets, all the advice I can find says you shouldn't??? Obviously I understand why we dont if it's been chemicals ingested etc.
Thanks in advance.
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First aiders should never induce vomiting for any incident.
Risk of aspirating vomitus. This is an immediate risk to life in compromising ABC, plus a secondary factor that any aspirated vomitus is highly likely to cause infection or other problems in the lungs which gives, between the two, two chances of killing the patient
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How are you going to induce vomiting? Sticking 2 fingers down their throat? I do believe that would be called assault.
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Rank: Newbie Groups: Registered, Registered Users, Subscribers
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Thanks for answers. Is it true that a hospital use charcoal to safely absorb the drug/poison?
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Perhaps its me...... but if you have started work as a first aid trainer...shouldn't you already know the answer to a very basic question like that...as a matter of interest WHO on earth trained you !! sorry if I sound a bit brutal BUT..
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Rank: Newbie Groups: Registered, Registered Users, Subscribers
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Nice one! Won't be asking anything else on here!
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LMK
If I am to be brutally honest, I would expect any Trained First Aider to know, without needing to research, not to induce vomiting. As a First Aid Trainer, unless you have professional exemption (which your question, in itself, confirms that you do not) then you must hold a valid First Aid Certificate to comply with the HSE regs as a trainer. Therefore, that you did not know the answer and had to ask the question you did, calls into doubt the quality of the training you received. The responder to who you took exception is one who, like myself and a number of others on here, strive to maintain high standards in pre-hospital emergency care, a phrase I use deliberately to distinguish it from what I have, in the past, called the Village Hall First Aid mentality. He was, quite rightly, expressing concern at the training you have received.
if you are training in an unregulated area, and do not hold a valid and current First Aid Certificate, then I would most respectfully suggest that you gain further training and experience yourself before setting up in front of a class. This would benefit both you and your prospective trainees. If you do hold a valid First Aid certificate, I would most earnestly beseech you to go and do another course with a different provider as it would seem likely that your question has exposed deficiencies in the quality of training you received.
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Thank you Jonacc, In my post I didn't make any comment about the poster, but I did as you noted, call into Q the trainer from whom he had, I take it did, recieved his trainer Qual.
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered Users, Subscribers
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LMK may I apologize straight off if I offended you in any way, that was not my intention and if it seemed that I was then I'm sorry. Please, if you need any help don't hesitate to ask on here.
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Firstly LMK Please please please do ask questions on the forum it is a good tool when you get stuck and lets face it we all do from time to time. I for one feel happy that you asked the question and got the correct answer, I find people on the forum are very quick to put you down, you did state that you are a new trainer. My gut feeling is that you have got the treatment correct on chemicals and had a blond moment on poisoning via tablets. Your training provider should be happy to help you if you get stuck, you should also have a mentor and support being a new trainer and have continual development to take you to the high standards that have been mentioned. And you are correct again with the charcoal but it is normally given within the hour of the patient taking the tablets after that time I think the process of the tablets has more or less been distributed around the body, after the hour the patient will be monitored and the effects of the tablets will take its course or further treatments given after consulting toxbase. I hope that you go on to become a excellent trainer work hard at it and reap the rewards, please ask your questions and don’t mind the good people of the forum most of us just want to bring the standard of first aid to a high level. Maybe one of the training providers on the forum will let you shadow them and steer you on your journey.
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Well said TLC, I would much rather people ask as many questions as they like, rather than be afraid to ask, like LMK probably is now!
LMK - I have been teaching first aid for a long time, if you need any help or support, please PM me.
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My thoughts are YES we dont know every thing, even little ole me with my zimmer frame and over 33 years in rescue work, but really there are times, if we read the good ole First Aid books (yes the VAS Manual.) Always read up on your subject BEFORE you start to teach, the basic of the basics
If you dont know please make a note of the question and inform the person i will get you an answer later.
Yes questions have to be asked about the company / training instructor who trained you in the first place.
But it has already been said this is the place place to ask questions,
Many people on here can and will advise you,
but please try and do your own research first.
I always have the up to date copy of the VAS Bible in my bag and yes i do read it every few month still even after all these years.
First Aid is only one of the many HSE type course i teach here in the sand pit.
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My point was if we want to bring standards up to a level then lets help the people who wish to gain the dizzy heights of high standards, not kick them in the groin and laugh at them. I often see people on the forum polishing their own ego at someone’s expense, this shows to me a lack of communication skills or issues with their own self esteem having to big themselves up. Or do they use the term high standards as a tool to keep competition down ?? Whatever way you look at it someone come on to a forum for help & advice but ended up on the gallows shamed and humiliated ( but not by me) Who offered help -raising standards Who offered a good kicking –offering nothing
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I have read this topic with interest. Firstly. how would someone "induce" vomiting!? certainly not as a first aider. I cannot understand the initial posters question, I have never heard of a first aider "inducing" vomiting. Could you imagine the damage that could be caused by doing so!! it doesnt bear thinking about. My freind, I should certainly have a talk to whom ever trained you, if you ever try to pass that type of thing off in any of your lessons, it wont be long before you get a bad name. Please take the advice that is given, (albeit not given in the best way sometimes) and enjoy your training. You will benefit from experience, so dont be afraid of asking questions, but be careful what you are teaching, I would be very careful if your trainer is even hinting at you inducing vomiting! all the best.
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Ang on a minute can someone please tell me where LMK was kicked in the groin !! polishing ego's ? where did that happen then, did nobody notice my apology if my comment was written in a way that may have offended LMK.
I'm glad someone picked on the point of LMKs training provider.
LMK my appology stands and please please write on here if you need any advice.
LMK it was just the fact that your Q caught me by supprise (and probably on a bad day too).
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I think it's too late! I have emailed and PM'd LMK to offer help and have had no reply. I think he/she is very upset with all of us! This is the problem with written communication, voice tone cannot be interpreted and quite frankly, some of the initial answers read as very nasty and not supportive at all, even if that is not how they were intended. Basic trainer training teaches you not to be scornful or sarcastic when trainees ask questions, even ones that are obvious to us, surely that should extend to colleagues too? I agree with TLC, it looked more like an attack.
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered Users, Subscribers
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 For me the forum is about having a laugh and sharing information and help to all users.
Let’s make this simple I have also sent LMK a private message with a offer of support, but it looks like LMK has left the forum due to the response received from other forum users. (kick in the groin). The more people use the forum for me is a good thing it brings new ideas thoughts along with business opportunities, it also makes it attractive to advertisers that could attract discounts for forum members. Maybe we all need to put this down to experience and go gentle with people who are new to the forum. I do know that just about everyone on the forum wants to raise standards, eg JonAcc has helped me with advice and a personal visit , that was extremely helpful to me. My post was a little controversial and that was deliberate, with the idea of making people think about what they state on the forum, looks like we have lost a member and who knows maybe more. My intention is only to make the forum a good place to be and not to point fingers.
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As stated under CAUTION p208 of the current Revised9th Edition VAS manual- Never attempt to induce vomiting Nigel Barraclough’s book used by very many trainers for HSE courses states in RED –Never make the casualty vomit. This may put the airway in danger ! Looking at the history of first aid I find it interesting to note in the 1 st Edition of the VAS manual (twenty first edition) the following When poison has been swallowed and the casualty is conscious :— (i) Get rid of the poison by making him vomit. Tickle the back of the throat with a spoon or two fingers, or if this method fails, give an Emetic, i.e., two tablespoons of salt to a tumbler of water, preferably tepid. This is an example why we require to keep up-to-date with current recommended practices (CPD ?) Zac
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Zac
Absolutely right about CPD. Things that were perceived wisdom years ago are now found to be ineffective or even harmful to patients, but it takes decades to eradicate old practices.
Like (I suspect) many who read the first post, I was quite stunned at the question as I am sure most first aid books stress never induce vomiting. Nevertheless, I did not want to frighten the questionner away so I answered it factually. But it frightens me to think of the poor standards of training that must be out there, and it goes some way to contributing to the problem that it is difficult to raise the standing of first aid in many organisation's eyes, and consequently income, and from there, further raising of standards
At a course earlier this week, the candidates expressed the view that they would like to have had their assessment as three or four incidents set up around the substantial grounds we were working in. So would I have liked that, but the extra costs of additional assessors, patients and a make-up artist just cannot be factored into a price when bidding for local authority contracts. Until standards nationally can be properly raised and sustained in all areas, not just FAW, there is no real chance of running courses to the quality standards I would truly like to achieve.
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