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to Doherty 1234 we cant always win we just give it our best shot nizzle2008-06-13 18:57:57
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Here , here !!! You can only do so much , no one can save them all , it does not matter if you are a para ,tech or f.a , and the main thing to remember is that if you have to do something that upsets you ...talk about it , dont bottle it up , i have been a tech for 8 years and have done loads of resus,s but i got all chocked up the other moth when we were working on a 54 y.o lady who had arrested , it was the fact that at one stage we nearly called it , we asked the family who discussed it and stated that they would like us to carry on to hospital , which ironically made me feel a bit better despite the obvious outcome but in the house it ripped me up a little even now !
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I can claim a 100% consistency with CPR. So far I have been involved in 4 extended resuscitation scenarios, and they all died.
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 Oh for consistency
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One of my first shifts as a CFR got sent to a care home for a SOB. On arrival said Pt was in cardiac arrest, temp in the room was about 90 deg, backup running from about 35miles away. 22 mins later, dripping in sweat crew rolls in and says ok you can stop now we will call it  Was a bit miffed then but understand why now.
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i lost my first aid virginity 2 days after i passed my FAW it was a Banger Racing Meeting, a driver rolled over in his car and was compaining of pains in his shoulder we did the usual put it in a sling and let him sit down, after a while he started complain of neck pain, we tried to put a collar on him but because of his collar bone bein broken (not that we knew at the time) he wouldnt have it on, so we decided to do a standing takedown onto a spinal board and lay him down at strap him up, We called EMAS as both other ambulances were off site and we were left with a coverted landie, a fast response car turned up which was no good to anybody after the para on board decided blue lights were they way to. she called for ambo and they were all busy, so they send the WNAA who turn up with a camera crew. so overall it was a good day and later on that day he returned with a few bottles of beer to say thanks (sorry for being so long winded)
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Did my first CPR sometime ago now but still sticks in mind, 60 Y.O. just joined a squash club, first game, went down like he'd been shot. On arrival, no attempts at CPR in progress from the audience, cyanotic, agonal breathing no detectable pulses. Launched in to CPR, while buddy plugged in the defib, -asystole, no shock, another round of CPR, EPI etc, fine VF , shocked, another round of CPR, all the while O2 from bag and mask with OP airway, load into Ambo, continuous CPR to A&E, 20 minutes of heroic efforts from resus crew and then called. Knackered, sweating like a fat birds ar*e in a chip shop. Since then, some saves but mostly not, hard to take sometimes, fortify myself with the knowledge if we aren't trying they would have NO chance. RIP to the ones we don't win.
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My first experience of CPR was when I was about 11 years old. The week before I went to try sja for a session to see if I liked it. Everyone was really friendly and I watched as they practiced doing ressucitation. Shortly afterwards my parents allowed me to go into town with a friend and we saw a huge commotion in the centre of the street my friend pulled me towards the crowd where a gentleman was lying flat out on the ground. All the adults were just standing there not knowing what to do. The woman with him was screaming and pulling at his arms in fright. My mum had always taught us the basics anyway so I stepped forward and checked an ambulance had been called and began cpr. The initial reaction of the adults around me was that a small girl couldn't help this huge guy but when the ambulance crew arrived they suprised them by saying what a good job I was doing etc. The chap didn't make it - I went down to a and e later. Staff reassured me that I did good but that unfortunately he didn't stand a chance. His wife said that he refused to listen to medical advice and had even just had a massive fry up just before he collapsed!!
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Originally Posted by: EMD_Nic  First memorable one was while I was working for the Prison Service and not long completed my FAW.
Had to deal with a prisoner who has self harmed by cutting his wrists, while I was dealing the bleeding and trying to control it while the ambulance was on it's way, I had to work around four prison officers who were trying to hold him down in everyway possible because he didn't want treatment.
Are the laws of assault different 'inside'? Elsewhere, even a fully qualified Doctor would be guilty of assault if he provided 'care' (even life-saving, or in the 'best interests' of the casualty) to a patient who actively refused care. Care must be offered to the patient, and their acceptance or rejection is absolutely final. They would (and you almost certainly should) have waited for the patient to become unconcious before doing anything. When the patient can't express concent to treatment, implied concent is generally assumed - unless an appropriate DNAR/DNACPR exists (Do Not Attempt Recusitation/Do Not Attempt Cardio-Pulmonary Recusitation) Despite your undoubted best possible motivation and intentions, you (and the other officers helping) provide 'treatment', are pretty lucky not to have ended up charged and possibly found guilty of assault.
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Sorry Mike, in this intance you are wrong. This is a person in lawful custody. There is a plethora of prison law, but what matey was trying to do was escape justice handed down to him by electing for an early exit. Therefore, he is attempting to pervert the course of justice, which is an offence for which he can be, forcibly, if needed, be prevented from achieving. Common law and S3 Criminal Law Act and the previous PACE 24 augmented by SOCAP 2006 allows for reasonable force to be used to prevent harm to others, property or in this case self. You are also wrong about the issue of doctors being guilty of assault. Its old wives tales like this that cause people to faff and bluster whilst a patient dies in front of their eyes. Unconciousness is not a green light to consent. The only thing that can prevent any medical professional from rendering aid to the best of their ability is an advanced directive/DNAR order.
If you want to construct a B@@@ard points defence, blood loss reduces perfusion. Poor perfusion creates confusion. Confusion = lack of capacity ergo the ability to consent. Therefore, consent is implied and you are free to continue life saving treatment with impunity because any reasonable person would do what you intend to do
It is otherwise known as the Ways and Means Act, Badgers Act, Dudley Baths Act and so forth. If you act in good faith, nothing will happen to you, ever. There is an acronym to remember. JPLAN. Is your action/decision Justified, Proportionate, Legal, Accountable, Neccessary. In the case of saving live, anything goes. Nobody has ever been prosecuted for assault in the process of saving life. Ever.
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Originally Posted by: PrivAmb Sorry Mike, in this intance you are wrong. This is a person in lawful custody. ..... OK, point taken, and thanks. Mike
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learn something new everyday!
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Hmm don't know about topping these but did end up doing CPR in the nude once - just got out of the shower and was wandering back to my room wearing a (small) green army towel when I found a guy in arrest half in and half out of his room at an RAF Officers Mess. Needless to say the towel did not last long! Best bit was when the (female) Station Medical Officer pitched up and asked me if I had any aspirins!
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Just remember it is a guideline and if you are perfuming good CPR then why swap over, please also remember when the patient is loaded into the back of the ambo the rescuer does not always have luxury of a mate to swap over with, the rescuer will then have to perform effective CPR in a moving vehicle sometimes for a long period of time. My advice is don’t get bogged down with swapping be honest with yourself and when you become tired swap, remember it’s just a guideline, Also if the patient is in a upturned car in a ditch etc you might only be able to get one rescuer into the environment.
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Well I just completed my 1st Aid training doing sat 21st and 28th in Watford. Never thought I would be using it two days later. Still in the panic of the moment...I stayed calm.....Remembered most except could not recall The AVPU...looked it up when I got home. My neighbour 19 having what seemed like an Asthma Attack.. I can now confirm she was V on the AVPU scale. Very clamy, DIB, holding chest, could not stand legs giving way. (On 1st glance I thought it was a panic attack).
I had another neighbour looking for inhalor whilst I grabbed phone and decided 999 at the same time calming her down.
Anyway the paramedic was brilliant and it turned out my initial thoughts were right it was a panic attack, her oxygen levels were 100%...But I would do the same again if I was unsure and never really realised how easy it was to confuse a panic attack with an Asthma Attack.
Anyway a massive thank you to our Trainer from ABC First Aid Limited...No one else knew what to do and I never thought I would have a casualty 2 days after finishing the course and deal with it so confidently!
Thank You! You know who you are......
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Well done! Just goes to prove that everyone shoule be first aid trained. Having a panic attack is nasty (been there, done that, thought I was going to die) and it's always a help just to have someone calm there who can 'hold your hand' and tell you everything will be fine when you're convinced the sky is falling in.
Did you know that AoFA (plug) are running an Award Scheme specifically aimed at events like this and wonderful first aiders who really do thier best and make a difference (even if the outcome is not so positive) - give me a yell in the office for guidance.
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also as far as im aware it is illegal to comit suicide, therefore by stopping someone in that instance is acting in the prevention of a crime
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Well done MH nice to see you are keeping on top of things.
The post you replied to is over a year old
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