I learnt First Aid from St John and the Red Cross. I chose those
organisations because of their voluntary work and the feeling
that their teaching was not compromised by the need to make
profits. I never had proof of this, just a gut feeling that they had
the right motivation.

Reading some of the responses on this forum to the changes in
resuscitation guidleines has convinced me that my view of
private first aid training organisations was correct. It seems that
some forum contributors see the opportunity to sell their
organisation over the VAS by quickly implementing the Resus
Council changes is a bigger motivation than the safety aspects
of thoroughly learning and understanding the changes.

It's a shame that many potential customers will not see these
discussions. I am thorughly disheartened to see a rush for
profits before giving proper consideration to what for someone
may one day be a life or death situation.

The VAS organisations deserve support, not criticism, for rightly
taking some time to consider and implement the new guidelines.
Their approach is the right one. Shame on those who just see
the new guidelines as a way of making a quick profit.

Posted by abacusmann

But bare in mind how all of the VAS's activites benfit the public. Training and PTS work helps to fund the volunterr side which costs huge amounts.

Posted by mountainman

Indeed the VAS's do a lot of work, however the volunteers give up thier time freely, but the organisation still charges, sorry asks for voluntary contributions do they not.

Regards
Michael

Posted by ratty

The question is when did you learn because for the last 10 years that I know off they have been profit making.
The reason they are not changing now is because they can not turn round as quick as the smaller companies who can

Posted by johng

The reason they are taking their time to implement the new guidelines is that the VAS organisations are HUGE, and have 100's of trainers to de-brief so that the "organisation" teaches the same way wherever they are in the country.

I run an Independant HSE Approved company, who employs myself and my partner.

We can de-brief each other within a few HOURS, therefore can implement the changes immediately.

The other reason the VAS organisations will be waiting, is that they have to be seen to follow their "bible", and it's not printed yet, so have to wait.

Simple really



Posted by derek

What is perhaps not fair is their Vat exempt status this does not create a level playing field.Apart from that I enjoyed having them as competitors they are big inflexible and as a result have more or less been forced to shut down in our area.

Posted by earl

Why shouldn't the private training providers have a cut of the profits. After all we are business people just like the VAS (yes I did say that). The last St. John's course I went on had 26 students who each paid £200 + VAT and also enrolled with the local college (through St. John's) which will bring them an extra £30 per head in FEFC funding. I make that £6890 they took for that course. I charge an awful lot less than this and employ 5 loyal staff who are committed to running an efficient business. It is nice to think that members of the VAS can get on their morale high horse and quote their own views on the implications of new changes, which have been agreed by powers much higher than ourselves, however I am running a business and any edge I can get to take some of that pie will be very nice thank you very much.
I think it may be time to realise that some of us are doing this for profit; this does not mean we are not committed to giving the best training using the most up to date methods, simply that we are running a business.

Posted by nsingle111

I don't think it matters who the organisation is or if they are private or not for profit. The changes are available for implementation now and any organisation that has the ability to bring in the new guidelines should do so.

Given that the changes have already been reviewed there is not a lot to consider, so the only question is how long will it take to roll them out in the various organisations.

I think that organisations that roll out the changes early should be supported and certainly I do not believe that there is a rush for profits, rather a rush towards easier methods to teach.

The VAS orgainsations operate in a commercial environment and will be subject to market pressures, and private organisations will promote any area where that are clearly ahead by implementing the changes.

The question that you need to ask is if there is a later version of a proceedure would you want to be taught that method or the new method.

Posted by parasolemt

I think its time for some people to wake up to the real world.To imply that the VAS dont make money from their work is total rubbish. They are as driven by profit as any organisation. Yes they do great voluntary work as well but they have the same outlook as any ethically run private training group. The pompus attitude displayed in your message is one of the reasons more and more people are using private training companies. There are good and bad in all, but because somebody is able to train improved techniques quicker then others suddenly means its profit based. St Johns dont have the monopoly on public spirit, and the self righteous thinking of their trainers doesnt help their cuase at all.

Posted by ffpc3339

I started teaching the new protocols immediately I had digested the information.

This was not to gain a competitive advantage over anyone else, it was because it has been proven to give casualty's a better chance of survival.

Therefore, why teach old stuff when new and better methods are available ?

I guarantee that if any of my students talk to members of any of the VAS organisations, then they will be told :

"Nobody should be teaching the new resuscitation procedures until the 9th edition First aid manual has been published"

Rubbish !!

The 9th edition, or any other edition of the VAS First aid manual is the "bible" for VAS, NOT me or any other independants out there.

We normally use this book as a good reference, but as this is written for use in the ideal world, and I don't live in the ideal world, I use common sense when teaching.

Therefore I will not be advising my First aiders to apply traction to a fracture of the Hip and Thigh, just because it says so in the book !!

Red Cross etc ARE in this game to make money, and lots of it !!

They refuse to run on-site First aid courses unless there's 10-12 persons attending.

Why ? Because they don't make enough money to fill the coffers.

And I thought they were supposed to demonstrate Christian and Moral values !!!

I've also lost count of the number of times they've refused to provide First aid cover at events because "it's only a small event so it's not worth our while".
And if they do bother to turn up, they leave early because there's nothing to do.

Many a time I've had desperate phone calls from event organisers who are faced with cancelling shows etc because the BRC have pulled out at the last minute.
Why ? Either lack of volunteers or a bigger event (more money) needs covering.

These local events are just as deserving of their support as the big concerns, possibly even more because local communities spend lots of time and effort organising gala days etc to serve their people.

Surely all they have to do is turn up with their First aid kits, set up a stall, and raise money while providing First aid cover.

Or is supporting their local community "not worth their while" ?



Posted by derek