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VAS v private training organisations
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MHMedicalServices Offline
#39 Posted : 12 December 2006 00:00:00(UTC)
MHMedicalServices


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we have that problem. we do training. out paediatric care course is run by a paediatric nurse, and our first aid courses is normall an emt. we find that it gives an in depth course. vas sectors are big because they have their name out there. you probably havent even heard of us and that is because we havent got our name out that far yet. you'll probably know what we mean.
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ghostwriter Offline
#40 Posted : 12 December 2006 00:00:00(UTC)
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Going back to my comment about being prepared, I think it still stands.
 

The RLSS has only recently released its updated books, a year after the changes. My wife is a life guard trainer/assessor and is having her re-examination in two weeks, using the old protocols! Shehasbeen stopped from teachig the new protocols because the others in the region are not ready yet!

 

Also the manager of the pool where she works will not allow the introduction of the new protocol because he wants then to learn one protocol only (not dryside collapse and drowning).

 

By the time some get their finger out and introduce the new protocols the next lot of changes will be upon us and they will be complaining.

 

 

I had to plan the change over to the new protocols, prepare the training mateirals and handouts. Also I had to plan a roll out of change to 80 health care sites, 3200 clinical staff, so that we changed at the same time. This invovled posters, leaflets, update sessions etc. All this was implimented on the 1st April - and only then to fit in with the local general hospital. I could have begun on the 1st February.

 

Why could the VAS not have briefed their training managers and got the bulk of the changes out earlier?
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admin Offline
#41 Posted : 12 December 2006 00:00:00(UTC)
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Although SJA in general do a grand job. I am highly critical however, of them relating to the excessive delays in embracing the new protocols. It is not the fact that the new protocols are easier, it's the fact that the changes make CPR more effective. This means bluntly, lives could be lost through their inefficiencies, especially if you consider the 3 year requaification period. We all knew when the changes were taking place so why could they not have been ready for it. As a large established organisation, surely they must have a quality assurance system sufficient to roll out the update within a few weeks. If the independent sector could do it within a few weeks, why couldn't UK's' leading' training provider do the same.
As a sobering thought. Do you really want an organisation like this to run and control the first aid training industry. It's not a quantum leap of the imagination to speculate that if the FWC was in control, we would have been forced to delay the uptake of CPR changes until the lowest denominator had got their act together - in this case this means SJA!
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blackie Offline
#42 Posted : 12 December 2006 00:00:00(UTC)
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just to let people all st john ambulance personal have to take some form first aid exam every year, to be effiecient for that year.
 this year i did the faw, crp was on the new protocals. so please note admin we are now up to date 

 

it is only the faw that still has the 3 refersher exam, however i believe that may be changing and hope it will be soon.
blackie2006-12-12 16:59:40
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MHMedicalServices Offline
#43 Posted : 13 December 2006 00:00:00(UTC)
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thats true now dave, they are getting it sorted, its just taking them longer
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24601 Offline
#44 Posted : 15 December 2006 00:00:00(UTC)
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They do not run or control the first aid training industry. However, as a major provider of first aid training, it would have been absolutely unforgivable for them to rush into changing and make mistakes, as they did the last time around.

 

They had no more advanced warning on the changes than anybody else did. They did, however, have a larger number of trainers (on a magnitude which most private trainers can't even begin to imagine).

 

Finally, the assertion you make about lives being lost as a result is both inaccurate and unwise. It is highly emotive, and well worthy of an ill-thought out tabloid headline. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever of the efficiency of the new guidelines - they are merely opinion, and that opinion could be wrong, a fact which the RCUK is well aware of and have stated. They have infact advised on numerous occasions that the publication of new guidelines in no way implies inadequacy of the old ones. This is a case where the proof of the pudding will literally be in the eating. Incidentally, early audit figures from my trust show no change in survival or neurological status at 28 days from the old protocols vs. new ones.

 

It's about time that we stopped the VAS bashing, don't you think?
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admin Offline
#45 Posted : 16 December 2006 00:00:00(UTC)
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I really don't think that I bash the VAS. The VAS is a large organisation and as in any large organisation there will be very good and very bad trainers.
From the First Aid Forward conference earlier this year, various experts including from the resus council clearly stated the lifesaving benefits of the new protocols. I further recall reading an article in Ambulance Life confirming better outcomes using the new procedures. As to the VAS taking months and months to get their act together, then I stick to what I wrote. Their resources and their 'Quality Assurance' system should enable the rapid induction of these changes. Yes, we did not know exactly what the changes were but we knew the possible scenarios and equally as important we knew the dates.
My comment on the VAS controlling first aid -see FWC web site and look at the board structure and draw your own conclusions.
At mentioned before, I believe that overall the VAS do a great job.
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Resus Officer Offline
#46 Posted : 16 March 2007 00:00:00(UTC)
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I am a senior resuscitation officer working in the NHS and also run my own training company.
 

we has similar issues of implementation within the NHS in terms of when guidelines 2005 would be used, to counter these problems the whole region decided to implement on the same day accross all NHS trusts, thats probably in the region of 50 000 staff that had to be updated between guideline publication and 1st April (the date we chose).

 

I think the issue here is that the Resuscitation Council (UK) needs to set a specific date after which they would expect new resuscitation guidllines to be taught. They do this already with the advanced courses such as the Advanced Life Support (ALS) course so it would make sense to open this up to all resuscitation teaching.
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