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10 Pages«<78910>
Aspirin in heart attack
doherty1234 Offline
#161 Posted : 03 June 2007 00:00:00(UTC)
doherty1234


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24601 wrote:
I'm interested to know what peoples' opinions are regarding administration by first aiders of aspirin to those suspected of suffering a heart attack.

I've had a couple of cases brought into my dept recently who've actually suffered a dissection of the aorta or a blown aortic aneurysm, and of course because the signs and symptoms are identical to heart attack as far as the first aider was concerned, they've been administered aspirin.

I've always been aware of this possibility, and for that reason do not teach first aiders to administer aspirin (I believe the VAS take a similar stance?), but I understand that some first aid instructors are still teaching this.

Recent events however, have just brought this home to me, and I can't help feeling that the risks associated with aspirin far outweigh the potential benefits, particularly as so many ambulances are now meeting the 8 minute target for chest pain.

 

I dont think the VAS tell people not to give aspirin they dont show you on the FAW course but in our county all members who are HCP or FAW can administer the following as the county medical officer has authorised us to do so 

 

Aspirin

Paracetemol

Epinephrene when the Pt is unable to do so
mountainman Offline
#162 Posted : 03 June 2007 00:00:00(UTC)
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doherty1234 wrote:
24601 wrote:
I'm interested to know what peoples' opinions are regarding administration by first aiders of aspirin to those suspected of suffering a heart attack.

I've had a couple of cases brought into my dept recently who've actually suffered a dissection of the aorta or a blown aortic aneurysm, and of course because the signs and symptoms are identical to heart attack as far as the first aider was concerned, they've been administered aspirin.

I've always been aware of this possibility, and for that reason do not teach first aiders to administer aspirin (I believe the VAS take a similar stance?), but I understand that some first aid instructors are still teaching this.

Recent events however, have just brought this home to me, and I can't help feeling that the risks associated with aspirin far outweigh the potential benefits, particularly as so many ambulances are now meeting the 8 minute target for chest pain.

 

I dont think the VAS tell people not to give aspirin they dont show you on the FAW course but in our county all members who are HCP or FAW can administer the following as the county medical officer has authorised us to do so 

 

Aspirin

Paracetemol

Epinephrene when the Pt is unable to do so

 

and glcogel for hypos

along with Entonox and Oxygen if medgas  traiend or ambulance crew.
doherty1234 Offline
#163 Posted : 03 June 2007 00:00:00(UTC)
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Yes forgot the Glucogel, will be doing MedGas course soon.
Ammyidm Offline
#164 Posted : 28 June 2011 00:00:00(UTC)
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Losartan is used to treat high blood pressure (hypertension). Reduction
of high blood pressure helps prevent strokes, heart attacks, and kidney
problems.

Ammyidm2011-06-28 07:35:28
Witchfinder Offline
#165 Posted : 18 July 2011 11:27:47(UTC)
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An interesting and lively debate.



 



I am a First Aid trainer and a First Responder, as a First Aider the good book (St John/St Andrews/Red Cross) states: Assist the casualty to take one full dose Aspirin tablet (300mg in total).Advise him to chew it slowly.



There is no mention of contra indicators, though asking the casualty if they have an alergy to aspirin or suffer asthma is a no brainer and should always be done.



 



As a First responder I am not permited to give aspirin, however there is growing evidence and pressure from both the ambulance service and the medical staff of our A&E units for Responders to be licenced to give aspirin as it can, and has been shown to save lives .



I did see in an earlier post that the Ambulance service are hitting most calls within the eight minute target. Nice if they can do it, we have one ambulance based where I live and work and if that is away on a hospital run the nearest can be between 20 and 40 minutes away, in fact for one call we had to a seizure casualty they sent the Air Ambulance as it was the only thing they could get to us that would take less than an hour.



 



 



 



 


admin Offline
#166 Posted : 18 July 2011 13:33:11(UTC)
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Thanks: 1 times


 



From internal discussions, we are concerned about the adverse affects of Aspirin if wrongly prescribed / given . Also, it is not a fast acting drug even if chewed.  So although legally you can give aspirin for a suspected heart attack, waiting a few minutes for the ambulance to arrive will probably not make any difference to the outcome. Hence it may be better to wait for the professionals to turn up.



The exception to this is if you are in an inaccessible place where rescue / medical assistance is hours away. Then following the ‘normal’ questions, aspirin should be given.


Dave
These Kitchen people are back, so i am not sure what you next plan is with these people.
speckles Offline
#167 Posted : 18 July 2011 16:10:17(UTC)
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As has been discussed in other threads. They may be "stopping the clock" at 8 minutes but it may well be a first responder that is doing it.  



I feel it is something that needs to be looked at on it's merits. Some ofour locations (sites in the middle of nowhere) I advocate giving Asprin.  At others I don't.


JonAcc Offline
#168 Posted : 18 July 2011 17:10:14(UTC)
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OK, I'll try and reply again



 



The problem for any first aider/responder is they don't know how long until the cavalry arrives. They are in the hands of happenstance



We have run 1h40mins to a Cat A call because there was no one nearer available, and no-one became available until just as we were entering the village in the back of nowhere.


CFRMAN Offline
#169 Posted : 18 July 2011 17:49:03(UTC)
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in SCAS CFRS get training in giving Asprin and get issued with batches.
charliechunks Offline
#170 Posted : 07 July 2012 09:38:27(UTC)
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Yes a complex issue but one that may be resolved with good history taking if possible. As we know the symptom of an MI is one of gradual build up of chest pain usually over some minutes ( not in all cases) where as an  aneurism usually begins with a severe sudden onset of pain. So any gradual onset of chest pain if not contra indicated should be treated with an initial 300mg aspirin.
LollyBH Offline
#171 Posted : 12 July 2012 09:51:54(UTC)
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Hi all



The following is from http://www.hse.gov.uk/fi...rs/fawnewsletter0211.pdf

Aspirin administration


Anecdotal information has come to our attention that training on the administration of aspirin on FAW courses appears to be inconsistent. The view of HSE is that the administration of medication by a first aider is not part of a FAW or EFAW training course, but you can assist an individual in taking it. However, the one exception is when training students on first aid for heart attacks, when this subject must be covered. Therefore, for heart attack management, the student must be able to assist a casualty in taking 300 mg of aspirin and to advise them to chew it, not swallow.



And:


http://www.hse.gov.uk/firstaid/faqs.htm


Are first-aiders allowed to give tablets and medication to casualties?


First aid at work does not include giving tablets or medicines to treat illness. The only exception to this is where aspirin is used when giving first aid to a casualty with a suspected heart attack, in accordance with currently accepted first-aid practice. It is recommended that tablets and medicines should not be kept in the first-aid box.



Hope that helps

Rc1985 Offline
#173 Posted : 30 January 2013 23:07:47(UTC)
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Lay public are advised to give aspirin with symptoms of a heart attack.

Aspirin will be given before an ECG is carried out, the benefits far out weigh the the risks. Trainers picking and choosing what they train on first aid courses due to personal opinion is questionable to say the least.

Every drug has risks, the trick is to balance out the risks.
vas Offline
#174 Posted : 31 January 2013 10:52:52(UTC)
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HI  Rc1985 and LollyBH



Very straight forward and simple BRC do teach Asprin on their FAWcourses
TLC Offline
#175 Posted : 16 March 2013 22:01:52(UTC)
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What a lot of different opinion ??



But lets keep things very simple, 



Some people a lot higher up argue for it and others argue against Aspirin. 



However go and have a look in your first aid book and follow the treatment, its that easy. At the end of the day that book is the first aid bible.



I fail to understand how first aid trainers can pick the bits that they want to teach and omit what they disagree with.



Simple first aid saves lives dithering around with "opinion" will cause you stress & delay treatment for your patient.  


hollywood Offline
#176 Posted : 16 March 2013 22:25:35(UTC)
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Hello TLC

Asprin is so dangerous that an estimated 40000 tons of it are consumed every year,it can be purchased over the counter at most corner shops and garages,its use during the event of a Heart Attack in my opinion,the benefits outweigh any possible harm,just ask the patient if they are allergic,then don't give it



I have been teaching it for a long time now

Regards Hollywood
TLC Offline
#177 Posted : 17 March 2013 15:39:26(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: hollywood Go to Quoted Post
Hello TLC

Asprin is so dangerous that an estimated 40000 tons of it are consumed every year,it can be purchased over the counter at most corner shops and garages,its use during the event of a Heart Attack in my opinion,the benefits outweigh any possible harm,just ask the patient if they are allergic,then don't give it



I have been teaching it for a long time now

Regards Hollywood






Thanks Hollywood


Glad that you teach it to your students, common sense prevails, it's in the first aid book so it's a first aid procedure, SIMPLE  FACT.


I am all in favour of keeping first aid simple (mind you ,maybe its because I am simple lol )

GeorgeH Offline
#178 Posted : 04 May 2013 10:55:18(UTC)
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Hi,

This topic on the forum always gives rise to polarised views.

It is a common point brought up on the FAW courses I deliver and I always highlight that it is advocated for heart attack and the answer I give to the "Q" "is a first aider allowed to give an aspirin" is yes.

However, I caveat that with the detail required to establish that it is suitable so that candidates do not think it is a MUST DO.

A more inportant consideration though; is the practicalities given that most workplaces I train in have policies that do not allow medicines including aspirin to be held. Additionally, most people don't have them about them so unless the casualty actually has one it is not something the first aider will be doing.

Their focus ought to be recognising that it is an emergency, calling 999/112 and getting the casualty rested, "W" position being ideal. That way someone should arrive to help fairly soon who are better placed to assess if an aspirin is required and if indeed it is suitable!
wavey Offline
#179 Posted : 04 May 2013 11:34:51(UTC)
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If the first aider hasn't made the decision to give it then they will be advised to give it my Ambulance control anyway.   Once they enter the "chest pain algorithm" on the computer its on the list to do. 


We regularly turn up to people with both non-cardiac and cardiac chest pain just finishing their cup of water with 300mg suspended Apsirin in it..





As long as they don't have an ulcer, on warfarin or are allergic to aspirin then they should be OK. I tend to ask "Can you take aspirin?" if they say yes then they are taking it with consent and they have made the decision on their future.
hollywood Offline
#180 Posted : 04 May 2013 12:23:41(UTC)
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Hi George 

This is a topic that constantly comes up for debate,food for thought,we consume around 40000 tons of Asprin annually it can be bought in any local shop and garage almost,giving during Heart attack,i would just ask can you take Asprin if they answer yes then give it,in the workplace though i would say that the first aider should follow the company policy
hollywood Offline
#181 Posted : 04 May 2013 12:53:17(UTC)
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APOLOGIES everyone didn't realise this was an older post and i had already posted
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