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AN ALTERNATIVE INDUSTRY BODY BY IAN KERSHAW Background I left the Health & Safety Executive (HSE) on 31st January 2007 as a consequence of the frustration and serious concerns that I had about the pace and lack of direction in which both the HSE and the First Aid Industry were moving. Back in 2004 and at the request of HSE, I was personally involved in bringing together the Voluntary Aid Societies and the larger Independent First Aid at Work training providers. My intention was then to include a wide representation of other Independent Training Providers, however this was not allowed to happen. The longer term intention was to show that it was possible for the whole of First Aid at Industry (Voluntary and Independent sectors) to work together. Understandably with it being a Commercial business there had also been suspicions of each others motives in the past. I believed then, as I do now that it is possible to create an independent Industry Body that was capable of taking over the Approval and Monitoring work from HSE. I also believed that with the right backing in 2004/2005 and without interference from third parties, the First Aid Industry and indeed the HSE would now be much further forward because an alternative monitoring system would already be in place as well as the implementation of the 3 D
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I look forward to further discussion of your proposals. I can see the future being very interesting.
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I fully understand the reasoning behind the 4 weeks notification of running courses, but the reality as has already been mentioned is that if the small provider doesn't have premises, he cannot pre-book courses in the hope that he will get any students. I could speak to a hotel and book a 4 day FAW course. I could advertise this locally. 2 people register on the course. By the course date there are still only 2 people down for the course. What do I do ? Cancel the course and inform the 2 companies involved, and the hotel. The hotel has already turned away a group of 20 people who wanted these dates, and is now left with no bookings now. Will they allow me to pre-book a room again ? NO Will the 2 companies trust me to organise a course again ? NO All because HSE or whoever want me to tell them 4 weeks in advance of a possible course. The big-boys on the other-hand are virtually guaranteed to attract good numbers on any course they advertise, so they can timetable courses every couple of weeks or month, and inform HSE of this. What do my 2 companies do in future ? Yes they go to the big-boys, because they are unlikely to cancel courses !! That's another victory to the big-boys and another kick in the teeth to us small providers. We simply cannot give HSE 4 weeks notice of a course, when even we don't know if we will be running one. As has been said before, companies want courses as soon as is possible, and will not wait for 4 weeks. They want it yesterday, and we small providers can deal with this if only we are not shackled by this notification period. I have said many times on this site that the powers-that-be have got to get involved in the real world out there, and not always assume that companies pre-plan their training. Most of them don't. They react to situations which arise. For example, an accident in the workplace occurs, and no first aiders were on the scene or even on staff. Or they've just received a visit from HSE and are panicked into getting training done pronto. That is the real world derek2007-03-18 12:26:34
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Derek I see you are singing from the same page I am. This is a fundamental issue that has cost us dearly over the last five years. We lost a contract with a training company that trained major construction businesses in everything other than FA because we dare not bend the HSE notification rules. We lost a contract with a hotel chain for the same reason. We were sourced for this by another training company I had done non-FA work for. Naturally, they have never referred anyone to us again. Via another similar route, we were asked to do a course for a household name road-building company. Needed quick, as some certs had run out (change of office staff and renewals had been overlooked). They wanted 2 x requals and 1 x 4-day in the next two weeks as those staff were between contracts. We had to turn it away. The 4-week notification period appears designed to stranglehold the small enterprise, so that they go to the wall. My views on the HSE stance vis-a-vis small organisations is well-known. And that worries me where this alternative approach is being considered.
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I am very confused. HSSC seems to be well supported by AOFA and this site (admin) yet the email communication is place in the "new from around the world" surly if the HSSC so importent to the industry it should have its own forum. FWC does so perhaps in the interest of fairness HSSC should have its own forum and this will avoid things being hidden.
Carl
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Totally correct. I didn't even know about this section until I clicked on the link that Admin provided, to have a look at the email !! This section IS well hidden, and a subject as important as this one should be moved to a higher profile position on the site.
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As the FWC have a dedicated section perhaps another should be created for the HSSC. Totally agree that it has been well hidden. In the original thread that links to this so many people were banging on about how important the email was and how we all need to respond and act quickly yet it is now being given a very low prominence.
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These messages have been moved from the News section of the forum to this new dedicated section.
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Thats a good idea admin.
It would of been nice to of said at the request of some members as this would of shown that members can achieve changers on this site. Well done Carl.
Most courses should be registered but still leave the scope for last minute ones with notification or notify but you can run them. Over 90% of courses I would of thought were preplanned over 4 weeks. Best of both worlds.
mediaid2007-03-18 19:28:23
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I would agree, 98% of all my courses are pre-planned, though in emergencies then there must be a flexibility to cover "emergencies". Once upon a time, I had a care home call me.....needs a meds course done URGENTLY, how urgently I asks, the inspector found half of the staff without proper accreditation, they cannot dispense meds with no training, can i help? I took the call at 4.30 and ran the course at 6.30......very short notice though gained me an important customer as I could be flexible! Thats the way to do it!
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It seems that you may be going around this the wrong way. Surely it makes more sense to establish the regulatory body first of all, with elected members that represent the various factions of first aid training organisations. It should then be this organisations responsibility to develop, consult and implement proposals on the future regulation of first aid training. If it is individuals that decide the rules, however experienced that individual may be, then you will always have disagreement and resentment becouse an individual can not represent an industry.
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One of the problems we currently have is that the HSE decides on the approval and monitoring process. We could not for instance be able to do away with Assessors even if we had the backing of most FAW training providers. Who ever takes over from FAAMs will have to implement whatever the HSE state. The HSE must also take into account the employers (consumers) and not just the training providers, there’s also the ACOPs etc to take into consideration.
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Dave. There was a song from years ago, words along the line of " I could change the world, if I had you" If we are involved in FAAMS changing, then why cannot HSE LISTEN to this industry to look at necessary changes in First Aid Approvals. The HSE do not need to act upon our views, just listen. It is clear the ACOP/Regs need changing for the 21st Century, why not listen to those of us who implement it? Does HSe not have to place changes out to consultation? If they do, challenge everything, lets be a pain in the butt. They need to KNOW we are here. I accept the firm details may not yet be in place, I suggest Ian keep the Industry up to date. When is he planning dates to discuss his proposals with the industry? We are more likely to do all we can to support him, if we are assured he will work in OUR interests, and not his own personal agenda. I am sure it is not the case, though
I wi ll have no place with him trying to score points against HSE or indeed FWC. Can I ask, to your knowledge, why is he aligning with AoFA, not FWC, or does he not want to play with them......though I personally cannot blame him for not wanting to play!
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I have raised concerns with Bill Callaghan, HSC, Rose Court, 2 Southwark Bridge, London, SE1 9HS. I have asked why it is taking so long to introduce the planned changers and stateted several points to him that I feel should be addressed. It is the HSC who will make the changers to the First Aid Regs. His email address is chairman@hse.gsi.gov.uk and I am sure he would be interested in peoples views about the proposed changers and the delay. What is also reassuring is he always responds in about 28 days following your letter. The more the contact him with concerns the better and quicker I am sure the Regs will be produced. Scottydog: I even asked him a question about franchising and he gave me an answer.
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And what did he say? HSC seem to take the advice of HSe upon matters, so lets bombard them with questions and requests regards the current situation of the FA regs!
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HSC advise the HSE and it is HSC who are carrying out work on the amended FA Regs.
He said I note your points with interest and any changers will be notified on the HSE website on the First Aid section but I think you have hit the nail on the head its numbers that they will take notice of not just 1 whinging provider but everyone, first aiders, trainers, franchisees (yes even them) and providers.
Quantity counts and perhaps Dave (Admin) could write on behalf of the AOFA in seeking some answers to the delay and whats happening. And yes bombard him so that he knows that the industry is concerned and is demanding change. When are you writing scottydog.
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HSC- The HASAWA established the HSC and gave it the responsibility to draft new regulations and to enforce them either through it`s executive arm,known as the Health & Safety Executive (HSE) or through Local authority Environmental Health Officers (EHO) The HSC has equal representation from emplyers, trade Unions and Special Interest Groups. therefore lets harrass them, it is time to get the finger collectively out! Richard- I am on the case and shall tyr to get a letter out tomorrow, other work permitting! I am tired of hearing what will happen, if pigs fly, time to see action. anyone else game to join my gang....the gobby cows?
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Any update on Friend Kershaw? What is he planning at present?
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still not heard too much?
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Again, I ask, Can anyone assist me in the plans of the Good Mr Kershaw? or has it all been a waste of time?
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